Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

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Shakey
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by Shakey »

I must say I don't like the idea of restricting spinners more than other classes of robots through higher fees. At the end of the day the competition should remain as fair as possible between robot classes.

We do have a 5 minute from call to fight rule, maybe it should start having the screws tightened around this rule a bit? Yes that's not long to repair but I personally see that as part of the competition. My robots are all designed to try and make maintenance as easy as I can. If 2 robots come out of their fight damaged and are due to then fight each other, one robot is ready within the time frame but it keeps getting pushed back for the other bot then that seems unfair to me. Not only does it provide no incentive for teams being able to repair bots quickly but unfairly eats into the time the winner of that fight would have to charge and fix for the fight after that (A point I was unhappy with with the amount of times my opponents pushed back fights in the final groups).
Nuts And Bots - For all your components and ready built antweights!

Alex Shakespeare - Team Shakey / Nuts And Bots / Team Nuts:
AWS 44, 45, 49, 51 & 55 Winner - Far too many robots!

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Kyro
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by Kyro »

i was thinking of the spinner charge due to the fact of damage to the arenas... its more of a " bring spinners to compete, but be prepared to help towards the repairs the arena needed after the event"

my bots are made to be relatively fast to repair (although next event i think i will have more pre made replacement parts ready) but it still took me 10 mins to repair the mess that was dominus after the rbmk fight which i think was still pretty good considering the damage taken... and due to being the last few fights where repair time was tiny it added some pressure... if I had taken that damage in the first few fights i had enough repair time to fix dominus and probably build a whole other bot... so this is why i think that a 3 minute rule in the early stages of the event is more than enough for people to be ready or forfiet... and increasing as repair times drastically shorten in the later stages up to a capped max time...
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Esper(4wd flipper)
Mantis (4wd grab 'n' lift)
Dominus (Vert SPINNAAH)
Breakout(modular cluster)
Remembering Rex (antweight cassius)
Fennec (4wd flea) former world champion

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tomboys
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by tomboys »

I personally would prefer the possibility of 4 entries, with shorter fights to allow more time, rather than 3 entries. I do understand if it gets dropped to 3 entries on the day to reduce numbers for antlog though. I agree with kyro about being more restricted about delays due to robots not being ready. I also think that 2 people are needed at the initial checks and a set time that you have to be checked in by (or you don't compete).
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GeorgeR
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by GeorgeR »

While I've not been an EO, I certainly agree with the issues you've raised regarding long term sustainability.

Regarding numbers of bots and time restraints;
I think that 128 entries should remain a hard limit (and this could even be reduced), Chris, I know you've talked about developing antlog to cope with more entries, but I simply don't see how it would be possible to get through that many fights.

To manage the required reduction in numbers you could formally implement a system similar to the one you used at the weekend.
  • I would allow teams to sign up with the full team of 4 as currently, once the number of entries is known then cut the numbers.
  • If only a small reduction is required you could do as yesterday and cut to 3 entries without any walker/cluster requirement.
  • If a larger number of robots needed to be culled then you could move to 2 rollers + 1 walker/cluster.
This approach would provide flexibility, so if you only had 70ish entries (eg Bristol last year) you could leave them all in, where as if you had loads you could cut the numbers down. If you adopted a blanket 2 rollers + 1 walker/cluster rule you would end up cutting entries even when well under the limit.

I'm really not a fan of the 2 arena solution, mainly due to logistical issues (larger venue, more judges, a second antlog setup, actually getting two arenas for an event, etc)

I do like some of the suggestions regarding cutting the fight time to 2mins, and being more ruthless regarding being ready to fight (particularly in the groups where you've got ages between fights, maybe provide more time in the finals?), but those won't solve the issue alone.


The regarding the cost to event organisers;
I would certainly be happy with a mandatory fee (£5 per robot sounds fair), EO's shouldn't be out of pocket, and with guaranteed funds they would be more likely to book larger/better venues. You could even give free entry for those who help out at the event (providing the arena, helping setup, running antlog, fight calling, judging, etc.), that could encouage more help for EO's, and provide a low cost option where you "work" for your entry rather than pay.

The combined insurance sounds like a good idea to reduce costs if it can be made to work.
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Zero - rambot - - Axiom - axebot - - Valkyrie - drum spinner
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voorsk
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by voorsk »

I wouldn't mind donating. £5 per robot seems cheap to me, considering the amount of work and money you guys have to spend on helping us to have fun.

The 2+1 rule sounds good, as it'll get people thinking about what to enter, rather than just making bots to fill their quota.

As a sort-of northerner (Manchester), the fights around Birmingham/Warwick are about the closest AWS ever gets to me, so I always try to attend those. Half of them are even further south, requiring a 6 hour drive. Not really doable. :-? RoboDojo don't allow kids, so that's off the cards, and I dunno about Sheffield Uni. Do they allow mid-forties polytechnic dropouts to compete in their fights? :P

edit: AWS 59 is gonna be in Sheffield? wooo!

Anyway, I'm glad I helped by not being there. 8)
Last edited by voorsk on Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LimaHotel
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by LimaHotel »

I enjoyed yesterday IMMENSELY. I hadn't expected to help beyond basic setup / strike at all, but I'm glad I did. I also wouldn't expect to be given free entry for it, and I'd be more than happy to pay £5 entry per robot. My one concern regarding this rule is that it might discourage people from entering "joke" robots.

Regarding people not being ready for their fights - I thought it was a case of "wrap it in duct tape and get it in the Arena. You have 3 minutes.". Kyro's rebuild of Dominus was EPIC and I have no idea how you pulled it off, but it did Also take a while. If a STRICT 3 (or 5 or however many) minute call to fight time was introduced, then I would HATE enforcing it. I would, and I understand why it's needed. But it would be a real shame for anyone to miss their fight because they haven't glued all the pieces back together. Like extra insult to injury. That said, if this was strictly enforced I imagine their would be much more of a "bodge the fix" attitude?

Regarding lack of events - I'm currently West Devon based, making Bristol my nearest event location and STILL 2+ hours away. I'm trying to spread interest and get a group of some description going here, but I don't think that would make me any less likely to attend an aws.

I fully agree with George regarding keeping things flexible based on event turnout. Although I also expect event turnout to keep growing, so I'm not sure what more permanent solution may be needed.

Again, a HUGE thank you to Chris for hosting the event, and hopefully I'll manage to make it to Sheffield!
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Kyro
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by Kyro »

that rebuild of Dominus was the most stressful thing I have ever done... i was dropping screws, supergluing fingers together and to parts...

i would have much preferred to take that damage early on where i would have had more than 10 mins of rushing to try and fix it... thanks to everyone that did some whiteboards to give me the extra time...

the glue i used to repair my flipper didnt have enough time to dry hence it being bent upwards shortly into that second fight... i feel duct tape and no flipper would have been the better option...

but i feel far more confident on how well i must put my bots together because electronically, it was working perfectly after both beatings... Dominus was a bot i had planned to rebuild after the aws anyway, so big thanks to George for helping me to dismantle it ready for the rebuild...

im also happy that i was only beaten by the winner and the second place bots... if im to go out to anyone, and in spectacular style, i would want it to be the best 2 bots on the day... but yeah what a day...


i agree about the joke bots being missed...

if it was a 2:1 ruling then sadly, it would have to be mantis that got dropped as its the least of my competitive bots other than my cluster... so if it were to drop to 3 bots per team, i would prefer it to be 3 of any style of bot as id be happy entering exactly what i entered yesterday as my full team of 3...
Team Rocket
Esper(4wd flipper)
Mantis (4wd grab 'n' lift)
Dominus (Vert SPINNAAH)
Breakout(modular cluster)
Remembering Rex (antweight cassius)
Fennec (4wd flea) former world champion

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Shakey
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by Shakey »

One outcome of the max of 3 robots per team is that it helped open up the final group to a wider number of teams which I liked quite a lot. This to me felt like a better reason for doing that than even getting a more manageable entry number. Even though it'd be a rule that hurts my own chances I'd be more than happy for the compromise.
Nuts And Bots - For all your components and ready built antweights!

Alex Shakespeare - Team Shakey / Nuts And Bots / Team Nuts:
AWS 44, 45, 49, 51 & 55 Winner - Far too many robots!

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peterwaller
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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by peterwaller »

I don't think the spinner extra charge is really warranted.
I have been using my present arena for about 4 years now and although I have had to fill and repaint the base after each competition this is the first time I have had to get a new wooden surface and replace the polycarb wall around the outside.

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Re: Coping with the demand (An EO's perspective)

Post by Derek Dudge »

3 bots per team did seem to shake it all up a bit. Certainly if the 128 robot limit must remain its better to have more teams able to take part with one less bot each for the biggest/veteran teams.

I would be a bit sad if a permanent move to 3 bots each included a 2 wheeled bots only clause though because I definitely want to go to three bots at some point but walkers are a bit much for my primitive building and I don't really want to do a cluster because while I'm sure someone would happily drive part of it for me it means buying another transmitter on top of everything else I'm going to need.

I realise it would mean less of those things from the top teams who would quite understandably rather keep their team more competitive but hey we did just see a non roller win. So maybe the lure of the extra weight means walkers wouldn't fully vanish. And clusters... Probably that's where it would show most. Maybe some teams that are more family groups rather than solo builders would still enter them. More of the team getting involved etc.

Oh and I think an entry fee is plenty justified for an all day event like that. And 2 minute fights.... well that's got a lot of potential debate about it but largely I think it would be fine. *most* fights that go >2 mins are not great ones. Occasionally there is one of those battle for the ages driving duels that do though. So it's not a clear yeah 2 mins would be fine.
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Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot

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