Unofficial Rules

[Simon Windisch]

How about if some of our younger roboteers say that that they don't mind getting completely smashed to pieces, then we do it, as Pete says, with full spinners (but on the understanding that it's a tryout, rather than a finalised catagory).

Does that make sense?

Simon

[petec]

Pete, there is no decanting required. All the very small ones (around 11g or slightly more of Co2 are disposable, i.e. one use). A small canister could easily be surrounded by 6mm polycarbonate without too much weight being used up.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't cover connections - always the weakest point in the pneu system - and what's the point??? A 100psi flipper would throw an ant to the ceiling of any arena I've ever fought in, so a 750 flipper would just throw it harder at the walls or ceiling....actually more likely to bounce it back into the fighting arena again. Its a bit like PeteW's ever continuing quest for a faster spinner - the faster they get, the less effective they are getting because of the side effects of air movement, impact feedback and so on. As with all engineering, it almost certainly can be done - that doesn't mean it should be.

[Simon Windisch]

I've just remembered that someone mentioned a possible problem with 250g robots: would an arena be able to contain a 200g spinning disk in safety?

Simon

[Simon Windisch]

I've just remembered that someone mentioned a possible problem with 250g robots: would an arena be able to contain a 200g spinning disk in safety?

Simon

[Raizor]

Pete, there is no decanting required. All the very small ones (around 11g or slightly more of Co2 are disposable, i.e. one use). A small canister could easily be surrounded by 6mm polycarbonate without too much weight being used up.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't cover connections - always the weakest point in the pneu system - and what's the point??? A 100psi flipper would throw an ant to the ceiling of any arena I've ever fought in, so a 750 flipper would just throw it harder at the walls or ceiling....actually more likely to bounce it back into the fighting arena again. Its a bit like PeteW's ever continuing quest for a faster spinner - the faster they get, the less effective they are getting because of the side effects of air movement, impact feedback and so on. As with all engineering, it almost certainly can be done - that doesn't mean it should be.

Fair point, I'll tell you why i would like to be allowed to use 750psi. It is not to make them hit the roof harder etc, it is simply that I would like to get consistent flips and more flips. I would like to be able idealy to find a very light regulator to bring the pressure down to around 100psi. THe thing I dont like about flippers at the miniute is the fact that you have a constantly deminishing pressure so eventually you have no pressure to speak of, With a regulator and 750psi you would have virtually unlimited flips and they would all be consistently the same force (possibly wrong word there but you get my drift). My only problem is presently the lightest regulator I know of is around 200g, making it very difficult to build an ant around that.

I've just remembered that someone mentioned a possible problem with 250g robots: would an arena be able to contain a 200g spinning disk in safety?

Simon I would think that they can. My arnea is made from 6mm Lexan, that is the same thickness as used on the roaming robots Heavyweight arena, they have never had anything go through that. So there should be no problems.

Simon

[Adam Hargreaves]

I did suggest a solution to the potential 200g disc problem, but I seem to have been ignored...

[Simon Windisch]

You weren't ignored Adam. In fact, it was your comment that reminded me of the previous, safety, issue.

Simon

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

We limit the size and weight of the bots through a cube and weight limit, are you saying you want to have a weapons size and weight limit as well? I reakon its all getting out of hand. You're disc must fit size and weight limits before you can put it on the robot, and then the robot itself must as well?
All this messing about with what can and cannot be done is putting me off entering a superant. I think we all putting too much thought into it because of the ants that have preceeded them, when really, like the ants, we should jsut be letting them develop at their own rate. Why cant we simply give the same rules as ants, with a size and weight difference? For now at least.

[Rhys]

^ This ^

Couldn't agree more. What's the point of a weight limit when you have a limit for the weapon as well. I think you should either ban spinners, or have them, and leave it at that. Messing with weights and speeds will be confusing for beginners and difficult enough to enforce. I think the rules at the beginning of this thread should be agreed on, so people can start building for events. Then at least you will have some basis on which to change the rules.

If it's too boring, add spinners. If they're too destructive, then start to think about lmiting them. Just my opinion.

[BeligerAnt]

The main reason for limiting weapons on superants is to keep them accessible to raw beginners. All other robot classes have been running so long that the technology has evolved to such an extent that a beginner is at a severe disadvantage. It has happened in ants, and it also happened in Robot Wars - in Series 1 a moving robot was an achievement, by series 6 you needed an extremely complex and well-built machine.

I think there is also a justifiable concern over the safety of superant-sized spinning weapons, or rather the ability of our current arenas to contain them safely.

We don't really need another class "just like ants but heavier" - that's possibly why superants have never taken off before.

However, they do have the potential to provide a lower-cost entry into the hobby. If it is to be an entry-level class then I think it is right to limit weapons and/or armour. Anyone that wants to build more complex robots has a wide choice of other classes from ants to heavies.

I would envisage that someone might start off with a superant to see if they really like the hobby and to "learn the ropes", maybe learning and improving through the course of 6-12 months. When they (rightly!) decide that combat robots are the only things worth living for they can move on to the tougher challenges that ants provide. By this time they have a transmitter and some crystals, so the cost of the remaining parts for an ant is not quite so huge. Alternatively, they may decide to go to the "dark side" and build a featherweight! Maybe they will continue to run their superant for fun and to provide inspiration and encouragement to the next generation of superant builders.

Where we fit into all this is in publicising the superant class as a good starting point, and ensuring the viability of the class by building and running some superants to ensure that a good number of competitions can be held. I appreciate that it may not be as much of a challenge as building an ant, and may lack the destructive excitement that we have become used to, but we have to approach this with the view that we do it for the benefit of the hobby rather than purely for our own gratification.

And just to clarify one thing:
My interpretation of "beginner" is someone with little or no related experience to the wide field of robotic combat, not just anyone who hasn't built an antweight before! I would not consider anyone from a featherweight or heavyweight team a "beginner". I would not necessarily include anyone from another R/C hobby as a "beginner". These people are likely to have a lot of R/C gear (transmitter etc) that can be used for robots and a better-than-average idea of what to expect from building and running a robot.

Apologies for the rather long post, this is just my take on what superants could possibly do for us, if we agree it is worthwhile and something that we wish to support.