AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

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leo-rcc
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Postby leo-rcc » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:29 pm

I just did a test, the sheet works really well, kudos to the maker.
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Postby BeligerAnt » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:46 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Scott, you're right about the default macro security setting, I need to add that to the instruction sheet. I have also figured out how to do the double final - it wasn't as hard as I feared.

Peter, I'm not sure what in your system is causing the problem, especially as it works for Leo in Vista. Probably some deeply buried setting somewhere...

I would like to improve on the system to avoid fights re-occuring in the losers stream. However, I haven't yet figured this out on paper, let alone in a spreadsheet, so don't hold your breath for this one. If anyone does manage to figure it out, I'll be happy to have a go at coding it.
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Postby peterwaller » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:58 am

The other thing that would really save some time on event day would be if it could do the draw splitting same team and same frequency robots into different groups. :roll:
It would need to do at least two different draws for non and full spinner events so you don't repeat many of the fights.
I would like to improve on the system to avoid fights re-occuring in the losers stream. However, I haven't yet figured this out on paper, let alone in a spreadsheet, so don't hold your breath for this one. If anyone does manage to figure it out, I'll be happy to have a go at coding it.

If you take the loosers from the second round winners fights and cross them over with the other half of the group you greatly reduce the number of duplicated fights it is just difficult to show in the diagram.
Also at the last event we were getting close to 48 robots so if numbers continue to improve we might need to go up to 64.

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Postby BeligerAnt » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:52 pm

peterwaller wrote:The other thing that would really save some time on event day would be if it could do the draw splitting same team and same frequency robots into different groups. :roll:
It would need to do at least two different draws for non and full spinner events so you don't repeat many of the fights.

I deliberately left this part out!
a) James would be out of a job :D
b) I tried to do it once before and a PC can't react to "oh dear my robot's died, I'll have to pull it from the competition" as quickly as humans can
c) The algorithm is actually quite complicated as it has "random" and structured elements. IMHO humans are better at this.
peterwaller wrote:If you take the losers from the second round winners fights and cross them over with the other half of the group you greatly reduce the number of duplicated fights it is just difficult to show in the diagram.

That sounds like it should work, but it gets quite complicated to code the links in the spreadsheet "on the fly". Maybe something to try if I get really bored sometime...
peterwaller wrote:Also at the last event we were getting close to 48 robots so if numbers continue to improve we might need to go up to 64.

Agreed, this is a fairly simple change. Most of the effort is in creating the templates for up to 16-way groups. Not difficult, just a bit tedious.
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Postby BeligerAnt » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:12 pm

Antlog had its first real test today at RRC, and performed well I think.

Now if we run an event at a venue with wi-fi available, we can have the complete results published on the net as soon as the event is finished! :D
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Postby Simon Windisch » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:10 am

Gary's results linked from http://windisch.co.uk/robots/rrc/rrc20/

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Postby BeligerAnt » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:20 pm

I have just finished a new version of the AntLog spreadsheet. Instead of 4 groups it uses 8, giving a maximum field of 96 robots :o

BTW For a double elimination competition there are 2(n-1) fights (where n is the number of robots).

There are links to the original 4-group and the new 8-group versions on my web page (see link in first post of this thread).

One day I might get round to making one file that copes with 4 or 8 groups, but it is likely to be a bit too complicated to get done this week before AWS33 !
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Postby BeligerAnt » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:28 pm

The new and (hopefully!) improved AntLog is now available from http://garya.org.uk/antweight-robots or http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g0xan/robots/

Now supports 2, 4 or 8 groups of 4 to 16 robots all in one program. That's 8 to 128 robots in one competition! I suppose the next step is to go upt to 16 groups which will allow up to 65536 robots, requiring 131071 fights to reach a conclusion. :o
At that point I stop volunteering to help run the event! :wink:

I have also posted a complete set of charts to match AntLog - an essential back-up tool when using a computer. :wink:
The charts have been modified from Peter Waller's originals to try to address the problems of repeating fights. I think I have succeded in reducing the probability of repeating fights, although it is not possible to eliminate them entirely given that we allow any number of entries and up to 4 entries per team.

Please download the charts and/or program and give them a thorough testing and/or analysis. All feedback welcome!

The instructions for running AntLog now need updating slightly, but I'm sure you'll figure it out for now!

Edit: Updated link
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby BeligerAnt » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:31 pm

Latest version of AntLog is now available at http://garya.org.uk/antweight-robots or http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g0xan/robots/

This version adds a "Run Event" button to the "Final" sheet. This gives a dialog box interface which shows up to 4 forthcoming fights which can be run in any order. When a fight is run, the dialog box automatically updates to show the next 4 fights. At some points there are not 4 fights available, in this case fewer fights are displayed.

So far, the dialog box interface only works for the group stages. I still need to add the final stages.

The "old-fashioned" way of entering winners still works, and the two methods can be mixed and matched, allowing the possibility of going "back in time" to correct an error. Simply close the dialog box using the "X" button. When you click on the "Run Event" button again it will automatically pick up the next 4 fights.

Since there have been no functional changes to the underlying sheets and logic the fights will proceed exactly as before.

Still to do:
[*]Make the dialog box and text bigger so it would look better on a projector
[*]Add an auto-save function to the dialog box interface to avoid the need to manually save the spreadsheet.
[*]Add the final stages, although these are all on one sheet so it's not so much of a problem.
[*]Add the front-end functions to calculate group sizes and allocate robots to groups - the bit I've been putting off for a few years!

Please give it a try, all feedback welcome

Edit: Updated link
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby BeligerAnt » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:02 pm

After some significant effort, AntLog2 is now available :)

http://garya.org.uk/antweight-robots or http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g0xan/robots/

AntLog2 does all the draw and spreadsheet generation, all you have to do is enter the event name and the list of robots and teams. AntLog2 handles up to 128 robots in up to 8 groups. It's "intelligent" enough to fail gracefully when the draw doesn't work (only happens when there are lots of big teams and no single entries).
The results entry dialog box is now projector-friendly super-size. The (up to) 4 fights shown can be run in any order.
All fights are now handled by the dialog box, with group and round tags for each fight to make it easier to figure out where in the event you are.
The spreadsheet is automatically saved after each fight, so no worries over losing data! Note that it might not be automatically saved after the last fight, this still needs to be checked.

Please give it a try and let me know if you find anything unexpected.

Edit: Updated link
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby joey_picus » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:18 pm

This may be just me being stupid, but the bye inserting part of the program seems to be a bit vigorous and with a round number of entries (8, 24) seems to replace one of them with a 0/blank space? It doesn't happen every time though, redoing the draw sometimes fixes it, but in my test event it kept denying that various of Peter Waller's robots existed.
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby BeligerAnt » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:01 pm

Congratulations Joey, you win the prize for finding the first beta-test bug! :)

If you can manage to recreate the problem, please can you send me the spreadsheet in the error state?
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby Occashokka » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:52 pm

Sorry to comment on an old thread but things are getting pretty damn close to the 128 so it might need an upgrade,this is a nice problem to have but it might be a pain in future as numbers are on the rise
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby BeligerAnt » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:57 pm

I am not planning on extending AntLog to cope with more that 128 entries, since an event with more than 128 ants in a double-elimination competition would take far too long to run.

At AWS46 there were only 43 different competitors signed up and a number of those didn't actually turn up on the day.

Limiting the field to 128 on the basis of time is not unreasonable. It is easily achieved by reducing the maximum number of robots per team if the total exceeds 128.
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Re: AntLog - double elimination result logging tool

Postby Shakey » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:10 pm

We did have a talk about this after AWS 46 and thought of a couple of ways to cope with more than 128 robots. One strong possibility would be running the groups stages in 2 identical arenas. Yes it will require a bit more attention from people and more organising but a properly featured program would aid in that (running 2 groups concurrently). I might have a look into it now I've got some more coding experience under my belt. :P
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