The AWS43 Feedback Thread

[mTubes]

I object to the judges who had no idea how to judge a fight, non competing builders are meant to be the judges because if you dont understand what constitutes an attack you shouldnt be judging.
I wouldnt be judging a figure skating because I don't know what would constitute a winning performance, it was clear these judges were in the same situation.

I assume you're talking about the FanDaBaDozy vs. Robot Simulator 2014 fight? I'm sorry if you feel that we made the wrong decision there. It was an extremely difficult decision to make, and I think it's safe to say that having to choose a winner was an unenviable situation to be in. However, I am slightly offended by the suggestion that we didn't know what we were doing. I've competed in the AWS before, and judged several times; there were no objections on any of those occasions. Fin has entered his antweights and judged on multiple separate occasions, and Ian judged at the AWS 40. Again, I don't think either of them have previously had complaints.

Ultimately, we had to decide one way or the other, and we were unanimous in that decision. Looking back, I've only become more confident that we made the correct choice, and if you would like me to explain my reasoning then I'll do so. However, I'd prefer if we could keep this thread focused on issues or recommendations with the format of the event, and not on any particular incidents.

I would be interested to know why we didn't have the same arena as last time, as I preferred it to this one, mostly because of the size. Also, as Andy and I's arena has proved, fights are universally better and more tactical with less than 50% drop off, so I don't understand the reasoning to sticking with 50% drop off when making a new arena. That said, I did like the portholes for loading/unloading robots, although cleaning the surface of the arena wasn't particularly easy.

We built a new arena because the university wanted one which would be theirs to keep for future events. As for the specifics of the design, I'm afraid you'll have to ask Will about that - I'll see if I can get him to add a post on this thread about it. However, I do know that the portholes were more of a happy accident than a deliberate feature - the polycarb sheets we used already had those holes in them!

[mTubes]

...

I was due to fight directly after the annihilator and competing in it would have left me needing to switch the battery and if any damage was inflicted by a spinner I would have fubbared any chance of competing with a fully functioning robot in the rounds after.

Oops, this post slipped past me while I was replying to the others - sorry!

I'm sorry that putting the annihilator before the finals prevented you from entering it - if we end up running another event here, we'll definitely have a rethink of the scheduling, and I'll make sure to take this into consideration.

[shakesc]

Did like the port holes. Much quicker than the flaps on other arenas
Didn't have a problem with the drop offs. I fell foul (hehe) of the drop offs when fighting the chickens and had it in the bag. My fault, will learn from it

[EpicentrE]

I'm withholding my comments on the judging for that fight specifically until the video is available.

In the current state of ant weights 50% drop off gives an advantage to pushers, which less drop-off helps balance. I could write a book on how I think we should be balancing arena designs to help all types of designs have an equal chance, but it seems very few people care, and most are happy with just allowing the meta-game to evolve in an unfair direction unchecked. But that's a topic for another thread, really.

[BeligerAnt]

OK, my 2p's worth:

First off, massive thanks to everyone involved in running the event. I know how much work goes into it! I'm also relieved that AntLog2.0 ran so smoothly. There are plans afoot for an even better AntLog3, but I fully expect it to be a long while in the making...

We were very disappointed that the non-spinner contest was dropped at some point between Thurdsay when Will posted the timetable and Saturday. We have always managed to fit it in before, even with a large field for the AWS. By limiting it to one robot per driver and running in parallel with the fleas it doesn't take long to run and at least gives everyone the chance of a fight or two before the main event. Also gives newcomers a bit more justification to come along.

It's fine to have a microphone in the arena for the web stream/video, but is it really necessary to feed it through the PA in the venue? The constant level of noise got rather wearing after 4 hours.

I object to Craig's unwarranted attack on the judges. I know Fin and Mark from several events (not necessarily AWS, but RRC and SAC), so to say they did not know what they were judging was totally incorrect. As regards *that* fight, I couldn't call it and I respect the judges decision. I really hope I never have to sit through such a boring fight again. Well done to the judges for staying awake

I agree a bit more space to store robots and transmitters near the arena would help. Maybe a second table the other side of the arena where the whiteboard was?

I didn't notice a LiPo bag near the arena. As it happens we didn't need it, but there really should be one on hand.

[Andrew_Hibberd]

I would like to add a few comments on the last event. As I didn't do as well as expected I have few negative feelings about my performance. However the event ran very smoothly without some of the normal delays due to problematic robots. Many thanks for Will and the UoR SSE for organising.

The 4 fights shown on the board and switching between screens was very good and a fantastic turn out. Congratulations to Andrew for winning.

I was a little disappointed with the arena compared to last year, with an unpainted surface. Although there was less spinners than previously the multiple holes in the sides are dangerous if a spinner broke and someone was hurt etc. The port holes in the side did significantly improve putting robots in and taking them out of the arena.
I prefer a bigger surface as it leads to more tactical fights, although it was to the rules robots are significantly faster than when this was written. Also we are seeing more and more pusher robots due to the large drop off. I feel that the arena should be a fair playing field that any design should be given equal opportunity. A quick push in 1 second off the 50% edge gives fast pushers the advantage atm. We are loosing spinner and walker designs because they are disadvantaged as NomNomNom proved in the two grudge matches. Less drop off, meaning pushers have to control the opponent should give more design innovation.

With regards to the judging I feel the rules need to be clarified on what counts as a win. The two examples I have are when a pusher or spinner hits the opponent and they both go out. We have been doing first to hit the ground but it can be close if the pusher/spinner goes off just before the other robot. Maybe we should re-fight them in this situation rather than call it a loss for the aggressor.
The fight between Fandabadozy and Robot Simulator 2014 was a close match, but I feel that I should have won. My reasoning is as follows:
I could not have done anything differently as my robot did exactly what it was designed to do, every attack from either side resulted in my wedge getting under the Haz and I did the majority of the pushing and pinning. Although I was about half the speed, the tracked robot being designed to push failed to get past the defensive shape and do any pushing. If I had sat in the middle with the fan running not attacking then I agree Haz should have won on aggression. I would like to see the video of this fight as I am only going on weighted memory. We need a clearly defined set of rules that can separate this sort of fight in the future.

[Max]

This was my first AWS and I was very impressed with the organisation and thought it was a great event. My only comment would be if possible it would be good to have a separate screen in the pits/in the main room with a longer list of fights on it (like the entire round) so you've got more idea of when your fights coming up.
But this wasn't a big problem and was partly my fault for not listening to which group my robot was in at the start after panicking when I heard our teams other robot was in one of the first fights and nowhere near ready!

[mTubes]

First off, massive thanks to everyone involved in running the event. I know how much work goes into it! I'm also relieved that AntLog2.0 ran so smoothly. There are plans afoot for an even better AntLog3, but I fully expect it to be a long while in the making...

Thanks! As I said previously, AntLog was absolutely invaluable - I'm looking forwards to seeing what version 3 is like. By the way, I noticed that your website still says AntLog + LibreOffice is 'untested' - hopefully after yesterday you might be able to update that !

We were very disappointed that the non-spinner contest was dropped at some point between Thurdsay when Will posted the timetable and Saturday. We have always managed to fit it in before, even with a large field for the AWS. By limiting it to one robot per driver and running in parallel with the fleas it doesn't take long to run and at least gives everyone the chance of a fight or two before the main event. Also gives newcomers a bit more justification to come along.

I'm sorry that we didn't run the non-spinner contest. Unfortunately, between Thursday and Saturday, sign-ups leaped to 105 ants, and we got a bit scared when we realized this would require more than 200 fights.

It's fine to have a microphone in the arena for the web stream/video, but is it really necessary to feed it through the PA in the venue? The constant level of noise got rather wearing after 4 hours.

I'm by no means an expert, but unfortunately I think it'd be very tricky to remove the arena audio from the PA mix but also play it through the stream. If we run another event, we'll try to balance the levels better.

My only comment would be if possible it would be good to have a separate screen in the pits/in the main room with a longer list of fights on it (like the entire round) so you've got more idea of when your fights coming up.

I'd love to be able to implement this, but unfortunately running two streams would mean double the work for Max and Joe, who IMHO already had the hardest jobs of anyone yesterday. That said, I'll see what we can do about this.

I'll try and harass Will into answering these arena questions as soon as possible.

[BeligerAnt]

For Max, and anyone else wishing for more visibility of their own robot's progress rather than just the next 4 fights:

The thinking behind AntLog3 is to address this very problem, but that's something for another thread!

By the way, I noticed that your website still says AntLog + LibreOffice is 'untested' - hopefully after yesterday you might be able to update that !

Thanks Mark, I'll update the website...

[teamocean]

Right guys, I've been reading through this thread with interest and now its time for some answers to your points

Firstly thank you for all of these points, it is good to know what you like and what you feel needs some work as it means we can try to put on a better event next year.

Firstly relating to the judges, I am sorry that some of you feel that they were not suitable. I chose the 3 judges for very simple reasons. Both Mark and Fin have competed in a number of antweight competitions. Mark has also competed in the featherweight UK Championships too and judged AWS 40 last year along with Ian where no objections were raised. Ian was asked to judge again as without him the event would simply not happened. All three judges were fully briefed on the rules in advance of the competition as well. For the record I do agree with their decisions throughout the day.

As for the arena. The main reason for a new arena was the fact that it was not available on the day of the event due to it being stuck back at home with no way of getting it to Reading for the event. Not to mention the fact that there were complaints about it being too low and difficult to see into last year.

The new arena was only built this week as an emergancy replacement and was built around the pieces of polycarb we had in the workshop. It was finished the evening before hence the unpainted arena surface. We also didn't get time to add in any extra walls like my arena.