Proposed rule changes 2015

A discussion forum for proposed changes to the AWS rules (2014)

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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:35 pm

Pulling together things from other threads.

1) Proposed new size limit of 60mm cube for nanoweights. All but passed unless anyone objects.

2) Proposed enforcement of maximum fight limit being 2 mins instead of 3 for all weight categories. All but passed unless anyone objects.

3) Proposed new ruling on clusterbots. Debate open. Three options to propose.
A) Leave the rule as it is
B) Have a rule that states each botlet must be at least a certain percentage of the combined weight limit
C) Allow any clusters but remove their qualification for the 4th member of the team, meaning the rules would go back to "teams are allowed up to 4 robots but the 4th must be a walker".

Please express all opinions, though to avoid the debate spiralling out of control as usual, I'd say don't offer up any extra propositions that aren't listed here, unless you really feel they need expressing, about these proposes or other rulings, as that's the way things don't get decided.

For reference, my vote is 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) C.
Die Gracefully Robotics
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Rapidrory
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Rapidrory » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:42 pm

I'd agree with 3C as it may help to reduce the number of entrants somewhat as well. The fourth team member should be more of a luxury than a given, and as has been pointed out adding a Nano to an underweight bot is all too easy these days. Walkers on the other hand will always be technically challengeing, unless of course Will releases a pre made walker kit :L
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playzooki
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by playzooki » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:50 pm

My opinion:

1)yes
2)yes
3)C

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Shakey
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Shakey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:57 pm

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) A but since that's not likely B (changed my mind, 'token' clusters are allowed but this keeps the incentive for proper ones).
Last edited by Shakey on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by EpicentrE » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:05 pm

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) B or C
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BeligerAnt
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:37 pm

1) Don't care
2) Wouldn't bother to change it as so few fights go beyond 2 minutes it won't actually save any significant time. However, it would increase the need for formal judging. This is not a contradiction! Say that currently 3 or 4 fights go the distance. Reducing the limit to 2 minutes might, say, double the number of judges' decisions required (a significant increase) but would "save" less than 10 minutes - and the saving would be reduced by the time it takes the judges to make their decision!
3) C. This seems to be the popular vote - so I wonder why I got slated for suggesting it about a year ago?
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teamocean
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by teamocean » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:39 pm

I would go for
1)yes
2)yes
3) B as it won't stop people like Rhys and Andy who have built specific clusters as their 4th entry
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by joey_picus » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:45 pm

1) ...everyone seems to be going with Yes, so I'm not gonna stop it XD
2) No - to be entirely honest I'd rather leave length of fights up to the individual event organiser than have any time limit enshrined in the rules
3) C (I think you were just ahead of the curve Gary!)
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Rapidrory » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:48 pm

There'll be nothing saying they can't enter them, they just wouldn't count as a fourth team member. EPZ, Warhorses and salt and pepper are all good enough to justify being run even without the extra team slot bonus. There's already talk of limiting the teams to 3 members, so this rule would by and large have a similar effect for most people.

(also, 1) Yes, 2) Yes as 3 minute fights can get very tedious, though would need to make sure judges were sorted properly)
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by EpicentrE » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:48 pm

Gary; a lot has changed in a year. A year ago Nanos weren't very popular and the components to make them easily weren't as well known as they are now. Things change :).
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by razerdave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:59 pm

1: yes
2: yes
3: B

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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:37 pm

Seen as though the reason for debating the cluster rule is because of the explosion in nano technology, and that that wasn't around as it is now a year ago, that's the reason for the change. A year is a long time in technology advancements nowadays!

Also, how can you say a saving of 10mins isn't significant in a sport where most battles last under a minute? 10mins is a huge amount of time to save from fight time!

Like I said, on Saturday, a number of fights went the distance. The decisions were all very easy for the judges and very quick to make, but would not have been different whether judged at 2mins instead of 3. So why let it go to 3, and then add on judging time? Your arguments make very little sense to me there Gary!
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:13 pm

But the situation hasn't really changed in the last year, although it seems people's opinions have!
At that time it was hexbugs and little toy cars (and AlsoRan). It has also been quite easy to build fleas since 2.4GHz and LiPos became commonplace, leading to a significant number of "clusters". The only difference that the advent of nanos has made is the introduction of Lemmings.
Yet I got a load of flak from people who seemed to think it was their right to be able to enter 4 robots without having to build a walker.
No-one has ever suggested banning clusters. They can still be entered as part of a team - heck one could even enter 3 rollers and a walking cluster! :) I'm just glad that now it seems everyone agrees with me, but I still seem to be getting flak...

Is 10 minutes really a significant amount of time to save in a 6 hour event? I don't think so.

More importantly, are event organisers willing to ensure that judges are appointed and willing to make decisions, and are all entrants really willing to accept judges decisions as final with good grace?
It's not as if we have never had any problems in this area.
I'm just not sure that the marginal time saving stacks up against the organisational difficulties of more formal judging. Beware of unintended consequences!

If the only fights that exceed 2 minutes are the ones that go to 3 minutes then there is no extra overhead in judging and there may be a small time saving. However, if there are fights that fall within the 2 to 3 minute range there will be more judging to be done, the time saving will be eroded by judging time and the organisation will become more difficult.
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Shakey
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Shakey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:19 pm

BeligerAnt wrote:Is 10 minutes really a significant amount of time to save in a 6 hour event? I don't think so.
That's still an extra 5+ robots on a low estimate that can then be accommodate by the event.

BeligerAnt wrote:More importantly, are event organisers willing to ensure that judges are appointed and willing to make decisions, and are all entrants really willing to accept judges decisions as final with good grace?
It's not as if we have never had any problems in this area.
I'm just not sure that the marginal time saving stacks up against the organisational difficulties of more formal judging. Beware of unintended consequences!
From my experience nearly all competitors respect judges decisions, even if they don't accept it.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by razerdave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:30 pm

I guess the toy cars and such have been replaced with Nano's, but at least they're proper robots still, and can actually contribute to a fight (Slice to meet you's partner not included :P )

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