Dominance of pushers at AWS46

A discussion forum for proposed changes to the AWS rules (2014)

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Rapidrory
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Mon May 11, 2015 12:12 pm

Alternatively, just make the arena floor as big as it can be whilst fitting in the car; Joints or removable surfaces are likely to be more trouble than a slightly smaller arena..
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Mon May 11, 2015 12:22 pm

I reckon the size of the fighting surface can be slightly smaller if the drop off is decreased. In all the US examples, the drop off parts are like additional units rather than part of the fighting surface like we currently have. Peter's and Scott/Andy's arena all have to have a big enough battlebox to cover the fighting platform AND the drop offs combined. With the US ones this is not the case. The drop off part can be a whole separate module and thus easier to store.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by MikeNCR » Tue May 12, 2015 3:55 am

Seeing as a few of you were interested in my arena I figured I'd link to a post I made about it recently on my site-

http://nearchaos.net/bringing-an-arena- ... etirement/

That post shows a lot of the key features of the box, but doesn't cover everything.

Area: ~6ft square
Floor: Painted MDF
Structure: Steel
Walls: 1/4" lexan

The arena consists of the following major sections:
Floor (Includes combat surface, kick plate, pushout cutouts)
Roof (includes lights, access hatches)
Legs (4x)
Walls (4x)
Pits (2x)
Pit Covers (2x)
Hazard

Setup process is generally as follows:
Attach legs to floor with single massive bolt per leg
slide pits into pit mount holes
insert hazard into hazard cutout in arena floor
slide lexan into wall grooves (brackets welded to legs and upper surface of kick plate)
pin pit covers to walls
drop roof into openings at top of legs
plug in lights/hazard

The whole process takes <15min with two people and outside of the roof, the whole assembly process can be done solo with some careful maneuvering.

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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Occashokka » Tue May 12, 2015 7:08 am

Wow an arena floor flipper as well, ant weight arenas here are nowhere near that fancy.how much would a flipper add to the cost?
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by EpicentrE » Tue May 12, 2015 7:49 am

Well we'd want to question whether we want one first. I certainly don't. Never been a fan of non-static arena hazards outside of button-activated pits.

That arena does look really good though, and looks fairly painless to put together.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Tue May 12, 2015 8:17 am

I agree with that. Hate hazards that interfere. That was a TV thing and good if there's a crowd to entertain, but we don't have that. Boring fights are just as valid at our events because its competition. Nowhere in the rules does it say "fights must be interesting" thank goodness.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Tue May 12, 2015 8:49 am

Need to be careful about arena size though; having fought ants in the beetle arena, fights can get very boring very quickly as there is just too much space to try and make contact with the opponent, and when you do, trying to flip them or push them anywhere takes for ever and it gets tedious for both competitors rather quickly..
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by EpicentrE » Tue May 12, 2015 10:05 am

The fighting surface on mine and Andy's arena is 1.2m square. I think any bigger than that and you'd run into problems like Rory has mentioned, but you could probably afford to go a little smaller if it would be the difference between it getting into someone's car or not. You don't want it too small though or it restricts the driver's options. I guess it comes down to who is going to be transporting it, and what's the largest single piece of arena that they can fit in their car :P.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Tue May 12, 2015 10:35 am

Yeah, your arena is on the higher end of being the right size; there seems to be a sweet spot between too large and to small, which I'd guess to be somewhere around a 1m square +- ~30cm.. 1m square should fit in the back of most cars with the seats down I would think; I got 6 sheets of 1m square polycarb in the back of my little 106 quite easily :P
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Ellis » Tue May 12, 2015 10:37 am

Much of why I'm not particularly attracted to antweights is the arenas I see. An arena in which there is room to breathe (drive), a spinner isn't just going to fly out (ditto any high energy bot, spinner, flipper, fast rambot or otherwise), and where a lucky clash in the middle is less likely to line you up with a drop-off, would be much more attractive.

I freely admit I am from the outside so may not fully grasp how fights tend to go down, or be familiar with the different arenas, but that's what I feel I've observed. Fights seem pretty same-y and it would appear that is in part (at least) down to the environment.

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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Tue May 12, 2015 10:44 am

Yeah, all the crazy spinners I build tend to hurl themselves out quite quickly :P If the arena was 1m square with a drop off like the one in Mike's arena, then it would be a relatively simple case of getting 5 square meters of polycarb for the top and sides, then cutting a hole in one and adding an extra side pit. Could maybe add something like the low wall flip out zone in the beetle arena, but that can be done later if deemed to be worth adding.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by razerdave » Tue May 12, 2015 11:36 am

My car fits 1 x 1.4m flat, but we seem to be looking at an arena over 1m square, so my car may not be ideal, depending on how well the seams can be covered.

Also, I'd rather just a pit as a hazard unless it's for a show spectacle (that's what my arena had a flipper for).

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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Tue May 12, 2015 11:41 am

I'm just not sure if a US sized arena will work that well with uk ants; they're quite a bit smaller due to the 4 inch limit, so trying to make meaningful contact is going to be hard if the arena's too big.. That and floor joints are a pain, as even if they're flat, acetate will still try and catch on it as it's usually being forced against the floor...
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by EpicentrE » Tue May 12, 2015 11:54 am

I think 1m square would be perfectly sufficient with the reduced drop-outs. If that will fit in the car of whoever will be the custodian of the arena then all the better.
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Tue May 12, 2015 2:32 pm

I do agree that it is often a shame that crazy spinners (or anything with fast drive, Ninja being a case in point) defeat themselves more than anything in current areans and this can be addressed with a bigger size. HOWEVER I would also make the point that I find a lot of the US videos I watch increasingly dull for the opposite reasons. Two spinners hitting each other, bouncing around off every wall and then resetting and going again...there is very little skill left in these fights as I see it. Whack a big blade on, spin it wildly, knowing you cant really do yourself any harm or end up outside the arena. They don't even bother with self-righting cos they just run the spinner until they're back up again.
People criticise the UK leagues as being dull (ants are all pushers, heavys are all flippers etc) but the States have similar issues with being samey. Most of the fights from the last RoboGames I watched were two heavliy armoured drum spinners going at each other for about 8mins, without a single note of interest. This is why I favour a drop-off. Less of one, sure. A harder one to accidentally fall into, yeah. But too little of one that just means we get silly robots that aren't driven so much as "unleashed" is too far the other way for me. Like Rory says, there's a sweet spot for size/drop off ratio. Scott and Andy could easily hit that with a few small modifications.
Also, I'd quite like the see a platform with 4 enclosed walls and a pit in the middle (or off centre). Could mean new tactics in driving, as well as being less likely for a spinner to throw itself down as its more likely to skim over the top.
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