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Adam Hargreaves
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Post by Adam Hargreaves » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:06 pm

I did suggest a solution to the potential 200g disc problem, but I seem to have been ignored... :(
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Simon Windisch
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Post by Simon Windisch » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:15 pm

You weren't ignored Adam. In fact, it was your comment that reminded me of the previous, safety, issue.

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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:13 pm

We limit the size and weight of the bots through a cube and weight limit, are you saying you want to have a weapons size and weight limit as well? I reakon its all getting out of hand. You're disc must fit size and weight limits before you can put it on the robot, and then the robot itself must as well?
All this messing about with what can and cannot be done is putting me off entering a superant. I think we all putting too much thought into it because of the ants that have preceeded them, when really, like the ants, we should jsut be letting them develop at their own rate. Why cant we simply give the same rules as ants, with a size and weight difference? For now at least.
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Rhys
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Post by Rhys » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:54 pm

^ This ^

Couldn't agree more. What's the point of a weight limit when you have a limit for the weapon as well. I think you should either ban spinners, or have them, and leave it at that. Messing with weights and speeds will be confusing for beginners and difficult enough to enforce. I think the rules at the beginning of this thread should be agreed on, so people can start building for events. Then at least you will have some basis on which to change the rules.

If it's too boring, add spinners. If they're too destructive, then start to think about lmiting them. Just my opinion.

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BeligerAnt
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Post by BeligerAnt » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:19 pm

The main reason for limiting weapons on superants is to keep them accessible to raw beginners. All other robot classes have been running so long that the technology has evolved to such an extent that a beginner is at a severe disadvantage. It has happened in ants, and it also happened in Robot Wars - in Series 1 a moving robot was an achievement, by series 6 you needed an extremely complex and well-built machine.

I think there is also a justifiable concern over the safety of superant-sized spinning weapons, or rather the ability of our current arenas to contain them safely.

We don't really need another class "just like ants but heavier" - that's possibly why superants have never taken off before.

However, they do have the potential to provide a lower-cost entry into the hobby. If it is to be an entry-level class then I think it is right to limit weapons and/or armour. Anyone that wants to build more complex robots has a wide choice of other classes from ants to heavies.

I would envisage that someone might start off with a superant to see if they really like the hobby and to "learn the ropes", maybe learning and improving through the course of 6-12 months. When they (rightly!) decide that combat robots are the only things worth living for :wink: they can move on to the tougher challenges that ants provide. By this time they have a transmitter and some crystals, so the cost of the remaining parts for an ant is not quite so huge. Alternatively, they may decide to go to the "dark side" and build a featherweight! Maybe they will continue to run their superant for fun and to provide inspiration and encouragement to the next generation of superant builders.

Where we fit into all this is in publicising the superant class as a good starting point, and ensuring the viability of the class by building and running some superants to ensure that a good number of competitions can be held. I appreciate that it may not be as much of a challenge as building an ant, and may lack the destructive excitement that we have become used to, but we have to approach this with the view that we do it for the benefit of the hobby rather than purely for our own gratification.

And just to clarify one thing:
My interpretation of "beginner" is someone with little or no related experience to the wide field of robotic combat, not just anyone who hasn't built an antweight before! I would not consider anyone from a featherweight or heavyweight team a "beginner". I would not necessarily include anyone from another R/C hobby as a "beginner". These people are likely to have a lot of R/C gear (transmitter etc) that can be used for robots and a better-than-average idea of what to expect from building and running a robot.

Apologies for the rather long post, this is just my take on what superants could possibly do for us, if we agree it is worthwhile and something that we wish to support.
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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:01 pm

Well, I was most definatley a "beginner" at the last AWS. I had no technical experience (bar a B in GCSE electronics) and no money lying about that was spare (I don't work yet), and I still managed to build a good selection of ants as an inlay into the sport (largely thanks to Pete C).
I don't really see any difference in being a beginner at ant level and being one at superant level. Anyone who doesn't have the bits lying about still has to buy them, whichever class they want to enter.
I do agree however that if this class is going to take off, it's up to us to build them and get them out there, at events, and get them noticed. People should just throw one together with any leftover bits they have lying about that maybe are too heavy for ants, and just see what materialises, rather than design and plan them to cause maximum ability. Just bodge one up for now, see how it runs and then build an improved one if we can get the class off the ground.
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Post by petec » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:50 am

I would like to be able idealy to find a very light regulator to bring the pressure down to around 100psi.
Regulator is basically a spring valve that resists the pressure behind it. I would be impressed to see, even at Super, a reg strong enough to reduce full 750psi. I'm sure they exist (not much that doesn't) but whether they are practical or affordable is another matter. Certainly interested to hear if you've found some Ian.,[/quote]
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petec
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Post by petec » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:58 am

Dave26 wrote:Anyone who doesn't have the bits lying about still has to buy them, whichever class they want to enter.
That is true but it is still possible to build a Superant for less. You can build a pusher using nothing more than the most basic radio set - no extras except some material for the body and that can be got from recycling rubbish. A 2ch set can be bought for less than 40 quid and anyone with an RC car may already have the kit. A 3ch set can be bought for about 70 inclusive.
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Post by paul » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:32 am

in maplin you can (or atleast used to) buy a 2 channel rc set for ?20. compleat with everything. you could, in theory build a superant for alot less. to be honest sweetcorn was a supperant (kinda fat) and it only cost me ?10 and a 'bit' of time but it was my first so i wasnt that used toeverything.

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Post by Raizor » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:37 am

petec wrote:
I would like to be able idealy to find a very light regulator to bring the pressure down to around 100psi.
Regulator is basically a spring valve that resists the pressure behind it. I would be impressed to see, even at Super, a reg strong enough to reduce full 750psi. I'm sure they exist (not much that doesn't) but whether they are practical or affordable is another matter. Certainly interested to hear if you've found some Ian.,
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/rock.htm

This is what i am looking at atm, at a cost of only $60 there really not bad (around 35pounds). 85grams is a little heavy for an antweight but i think its usable in a super.
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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:35 pm

I built a combat worthy ant out of the standard stuff I got with the original radio set, its not that difficult. But I see the point, it would have been nice to have the weight to play with. No point unless other people are going to build them too though...
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paul
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Post by paul » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:02 pm

at dave,

i know this is off tpic, but after looking at your ants i dont beleve they would fit into a 4'' cube. please correct me if im wrong.

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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:35 pm

at dave,

i know this is off tpic, but after looking at your ants i dont beleve they would fit into a 4'' cube. please correct me if im wrong.
at paul,

i know this is off tpic, but all my ants do indeed fit in a 4" cube, as you'll see at AWS18. lol.
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