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Like antweights...only bigger!! (Unfortunately dead now...)

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BeligerAnt
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Post by BeligerAnt » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:39 pm

As a parent of young(er) children, I don't honestly see what the difference is between ants and superants. We already have children at ant events with all sorts of sharp blades and spinners around.
We already have rules in place to ensure blades are covered outside of the arena.
Youngsters building robots will be exposed to scalpels/craft knives, hot-melt glue guns, soldering irons, superglue etc etc before they even get to an event!
I really don't want superants to become so watered-down that it loses it's appeal otherwise we will have defeated the object of having it!
Also, I don't really expect a huge influx of very young children. I think broke teenagers and adults (possibly with young children) are more likely.

The only concern I have is that we as organisers of an event may be held liable for little Johnny's safety at an event. All we can do to counter this is to explain carefully to parents that we are *not* responsible for their children or their safety and that they are responsible for their children at all times. If they choose to leave their children at an event that's up to them.

I also think that the attitudes of competitors (whatever their age) are different to "the general public". We understand and are aware of the (potential) dangers of the robots (not just our own, but other peoples' too) and treat them with the respect they deserve. Public events are a different kettle of fish and do require a keen eye kept on visitors to ensure their (and the robots!!) safety.

Just my (rather long) 2p's worth.
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Post by Adam Hargreaves » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:17 pm

building computers is far more dangerous than building robots-as my sliced thumb is evidence of. I've built spinning discs, and never had an accident, but my PC is another matter. The no spinner rule is a bit daft, and really limits the appeal of the class, tbh.
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Post by paul » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:22 pm

however with spinner disks at the weight of like 200g+ (with a walker) they would TRASH the oponents with the armour allowed (no metal)

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Post by Raizor » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:22 pm

Duff wrote:
Raizor wrote:Particularly at superant level why are we limiting to 100psi. I have no prob with 100psi working pressure but surely you can safely build an ant in the super class with 750psi (liquid co2) in it.

I believe this for 2 reasons:
1. There are no spinners so the probability of the tank getting damaged is greatly reduced
2. With proper planning I could easily cover the gas tank with 5mm poly all the way around thus virtually impregnable.
This wouldn't really be cheap or suitable for newcomers though would it? And I think thats what everyone is looking for in superants.
Well have you ever though that a newcommer could already have experience with pneumatics i.e. Mario and Mike Lambert before they began building Heavyweights. I just think limiting things for non safety reasons is rather silly. And after all how much damage can it cause to the opponent realistically? If you bounce any antweight off the roof of the box and back down it will 99% of the time still work.
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Simon Windisch
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Post by Simon Windisch » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:22 pm

OK, you asked for people with children's opinions:

Well, my son is six, and I would not let him build a robot with anything sharp on it.

For my school robot club, I had a "no sharps" rule because they were other people's children (although one child did cut his finger on a piece of metal swarf, luckily his dad was supervising him at the time).

If my son were ten then I would allow him scalpel blades etc, probably. But not spinners, they are really dangerous, and could remove your finger, rather than just making it bleed a bit.

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Post by Andrew_Hibberd » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:48 pm

The no metal armour was added because it is not needed, like the first antweight rules, as the spinners had the tip speed removed then metal armour was introduced.

This is for beginners entering antweights, how many robot (not just ant) builders had 750psi+ pneumatics or a spinning disc?

The blades is complicated, avoiding all sharp edges would elimiate all problems of Johny being cut, but anything requiring a sharp blade would need to be quite complicated- such as a crusher, which a beginner would not produce 8)
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Post by Adam Hargreaves » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:53 pm

to be quite honest, how much cheaper is a SuperAnt gonna be? You're still talking ?70 for radio gear (if buying 3 channel) or ?30 for a weaponless SA, with 2ch radio... so a weaponised SA wouldn't really work out that much cheaper anyway... (here speaketh the voice of experience)
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Post by paul » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:58 pm

i agree it may not be that much cheaper but i would also be easier (bigger in both size and weight) and you wouldnt need to much (specialised) micro equipment which is where alot of the cost comes from.

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Post by Simon Windisch » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:29 pm

Sorry, I realised that I hadn't made my point.

What I was trying to say is that we need to trust the roboteers, or if they are small then their parents, to deal safely with dangerous objects.

Anyway, I would go for

1. Weight = 250g for rollers
2. Weight = 375g for walkers
3. Size = 6" (150mm) cube
4. Metal weapons are permited
5. No rotating weapons
6. Pressurised weapons limited to 100psi
7. No metal armour

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Post by Andrew_Hibberd » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:15 pm

Simon, i didn't fully understand the point, but yes it should be up to parents for saftey. Those rules look ok, but would need some clarification and someone to say ''these are the rules''

Adam, a cheap 2 ch 27mhz set and 2 standard servos could lead to a ?50 SA

Craig, you have a point with the rules being not much different from the antweight rules, but apart from the SUPER ant idea of having a new weight class the idea is to introduce beginners that have the standard parts from a radio set before being able to afford the small ant sized parts
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:45 pm

I built my walker, Meat, in 2hours, very easily, from standard equipment, including a huge battery pack and massive servos. I already had the transmitter, so, total cost was ?30. I dont see there any difference in price between the 2 classes, the Superants are there for other reasons.
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Post by Raizor » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:22 pm

Andrew_Hibberd wrote: This is for beginners entering antweights, how many robot (not just ant) builders had 750psi+ pneumatics or a spinning disc?
Maddox's first ant would have been full pressure only during development the stupid 100psi rule was employed. And now his first antweight will have a spinning disc.

Why does it feel like I am flogging a dead hurse here
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Post by Flippt » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:00 pm

This is for beginners entering antweights, how many robot (not just ant) builders had 750psi+ pneumatics or a spinning disc?
Maddox's first ant would have been full pressure only during development the stupid 100psi rule was employed. And now his first antweight will have a spinning disc.
Then I might add that he meant both adult that can make money and youngsters that rely on their money they been saving since christmas and their birthday.

Maybe we need a soft start for SUPERtants, as we did with original antweights.
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Post by american roboteer » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:26 pm

We cant go back in time to the days of simpler ants and my opinion is superants are just like any weight class be it flea, ant, middle, light and even heavy just the weight and size are different.

Why limit the class to just kids what next no combat just drive around your oppenant and the arena. When robotwars was going alot of robot teams included some kids most watched their robot get totaly destroyed by razer or hypno disc its no diffrent than as it is now. As for spinner rule without it nothing is gonna pierce that lexan armor even more now that can really layer it on with the extra weight allowed. Do we really want two robots fight almost invunerable to each others attacks


(yes i am aware of my spelling mistakes)

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Post by Andrew_Hibberd » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:02 pm

Well almost yes, fights don't last long enough, especially with beginners comming up against the more experiance builders. This is to encourage the building of ants by beginners. Not the destroying of slightly cheaper beginners robots
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