...He says with the current AWS fleaweight champion and second place in antweights
And regarding what counts as commercial or modified, I think it'll have to just be judged on a case by case basis... We don't have a huge amount of commercial vehicles entered as is, so we might get the occasional grey area but I don't think it'll ever be so many that it's a problem...
Rory and Dave: thanks! I will strive to maintain my titles and to better my robotic knowledge further so that maybe one day I too can do things like build cool walkers and make speed controllers for people
regarding the wording of the rule in question, I would say maybe something like this...
commercially available verhicles are not permitted with the exception of purpose built fighting robot kits however components or features of commercially available verhicles are acceptable provided the final product does not resemble the commercially available verhicle the components or features were taken from.
my perspective on the toys is neutral, use them dont use them I dont mind, main reason for my opposition at the AWS was because I lost to one so its immediately discounted. Not that any of that matters.
clustering a nanoweight robot with a 125 gram ant is a lot more effective than a cluster composing a 130g ant and a hexbug anyway ( in my experience ). at antfreeze the nano actually contributed towards most of the fights my clusterbot won in one way or another apart from one particular fight where the nano ran out of juice half way through and got counted out. i lost that fight but i think the result would've been the same whether the nano had spontaneously fallen asleep or not. the hexbug on the other never contributed at all really, when i entered it i did it because i needed an extra part to make it a cluster so that i could enter transit ant as the fourth entry.
Just as something to throw into the mix: One of the main points of having the 4th team member as a walker or cluster is to encourage some creativity in those who are keen enough to have more than three ants. However most people (myself included) just cluster a Nano or similarly tiny bot with an underweight Ant, or cluster two fleas much more often than actually design a custom cluster bot. If the 4th team member had to be a walker, then clusters would still be fine, but people would have to branch out and become more creative in their designs to fill their team. I don't know how many full teams there actually are at present, but if it gets to the point where there are getting too many ants for an AWS to be held in a day, then it could contribute a reduction in numbers, but either way it would certainly drive some more creative ideas, as currently there's no real incentive to build a walker (apart from the extra weight allowance I guess) if you can just make an easy cluster.. Not suggesting that this needs to be implemented, it's just an idea I had..
You're not the only one to say it Rory, and it did used to be that way, but no one really built walkers back then either. I also think its easy to forget about certain entries when discussing this rule. For every lazy clusterbot, there is a Salt and Pepper or a Warhorses that are innovative, and for every great walker like Kwejiboom, there is a Zoink or a MeanGardenPot that walk but aren't particularly competitive (no offense meant, I love those robots).
Removing the cluster rule may not increase creativity or decrease numbers, it may simply increase mundane walker fights because people are having to build them!
The best way to increase innovation is to make something innovative, regardless of how well it may do in competition, but not everyone is willing to make such sacrifices.
I think it's a valid point Rory, and somewhat linked to the off-the-shelf debate.
Back in the 40MHz and NiMH days it was very difficult to build anything below about 100g, so a fleaweight or a cluster was a bit of a challenge.
Originally the 'team' rule was 3 + 1 walker but this got changed (for reasons that have now drifted off into the mists of time!) to "walker or cluster".
Maybe now it's time to change that rule back?
Note this would *not* preclude clusters. In fact, as the rules stand it is perfectly acceptable to enter a team of 4 clusters (or 4 walkers for that matter!)
As time and technology have moved on it has become much easier to build within the 150g weight limit, and it's not much more difficult or expensive to build a flea or even a nano. It's also easy to buy a cheap 30-50g R/C toy to make a "cluster". However, it does still take some skill and determination to build a walker.
I think now with the advent of 3D printing and lighter parts, it's much easier to build a walker than it was, but the determination is still lacking due to lack of incentive; I was originally going to build a walker back in the summer as I thought it was only walkers allowed as a 4th member, but as soon as I found out that clusters were allowed as well I gave up on the idea in favour of an easy cluster. If this rule was implemented I'd seriously look into building a walker again.. I'm looking at it vaguely at the moment, but there's currently no space on my team as it is... If there was a space that could only be filled by a walker, for me at least it would definitely get filled, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one :L
Well, luckily for everyone, you should all be seeing an Antivation Cluster v2 which should be ready by AWS 46 which will, as always, be a cluster and retain the very unusual form factor while hopefully being competitive. That should add some variety to the competition as you all seem to want. I personally love innovation and implement it all the time such as my LED matrix on Doktor Power 3 or having an axe and a flipper on AntWithTopHat or using a really funky, unusual design like the original Doctor Powers, GiANT and the Antivation Cluster which all seem to be overlooked in times like this due to being ineffective.
I think we'll be seeing a lot more innovation very soon in the competition anyway and personally I wouldn't worry about changing the fourth slot rule. We already see awesome innovative robots which are very competitive such as Haggis, the new ring spinner Mutant, Andy's fan robot which I will probably misspell and others of the sort, many of which are clusters or could form clusters such as Nuts (clustered at AWS 44). Removing the cluster option would limit creativity, not boost it. As Dave says, we just need to test out new ideas and make sacrifices on our teams. Walkers are often slightly ineffective and hard to build which is the main reason I don't have one on my team so I don't think enforcing that you have to possess one to fill your fourth team slot is quite the way to go to boost creativity.
Well, that was a lot of writing; sorry about that! But the general message was: we have loads of innovation already and limiting the fourth slot would start the demise of all of that. Keep it as it is, I say.
